Classification of IP and OOP in CBet multi-way pots.

[acesjohn]

So what I understand of IP/OOP specific filters are:

IP = Last to act
OOP = Acting first

However there is some crossover that I need to understand in multi-way situations, when we are the middle of 3 players.

From what i can see, IP is defiantly last to act.

So what does this mean for OOP?

-When we CBet as the 2nd of 3 players, is this OOP or IP? I'm guessing OOP?
-When we are the 2nd player and respond to a CBet from the 1st player, are we calling IP or calling OOP? We have position on the CBet, but are not IP.

on my Hud I have:
CBet Total
CBet IP
CBet OOP

Also; fold-call-raise when facing.

I notice my IP and OOP add up to the Total stat, so this has led me wanting to know how the middle player is classified in multi-way spots.

[Flag_Hippo]

So what does this mean for OOP?

A player is IP when they are last to act and every other player is classed as being OOP whether they are acting first or in the middle of other players in a multiway pot.

When we CBet as the 2nd of 3 players, is this OOP or IP? I'm guessing OOP?

Yes.

When we are the 2nd player and respond to a CBet from the 1st player, are we calling IP or calling OOP? We have position on the CBet, but are not IP.

You are considered OOP for the hand overall but you are IP relative to the cbettor which can be tested for in a custom statistic:

Code: Select all

cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet_def_opp and not cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_has_position and cash_hand_summary.cnt_players_f >= 3 and char_length(cash_hand_summary.str_aggressors_f) >= 1 and substring(cash_hand_summary.str_aggressors_f from 1 for 1)::int > cash_hand_player_statistics.position

[dave2085]

i have a found some issues while using the stat: "Fold to F CBet IP". I see Villains with 150% (6/4) etc.

expressions:

Code: Select all

sum(if[not(cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_check) AND cash_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action='F', 1, 0])

Code: Select all

sum(if[cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet_def_opp AND cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_has_position, 1, 0])

While the code of the _opp is fine i think, this codes has some issues in Multiwaypots:

Code: Select all

sum(if[not(cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_check) AND cash_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action='F', 1, 0])

for example: BU limps, SB raises and BB calls. SB cbets F and "BB folds to cbet IP" --> This condition is not counted.

How can I change this condition, while not excluding multiwaypots!?
I think this does not work:
not(cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_check)

[dave2085]

maybe my post was too confusing.

I search a "term" which tests for "Fold to F CBET IP", that when such a scenario occurs:

BU limps, SB raises and BB calls. SB cbets F and "BB folds to cbet IP"

that when the BB folds, the stat "fold to f cbet ip" recognizes that BB was NOT in Position (because the BU is last to act)

So the expressions in this stat are not accurat for Multiwaypots (which is downloadable from the warehouse: Fold to Flop, Turn & River Cbet, IP and OOP)

Code: Select all

sum(if[not(cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_check) AND cash_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action='F', 1, 0])

Code: Select all

sum(if[cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet_def_opp AND cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_has_position, 1, 0])

[Flag_Hippo]

Thanks and you are correct so I've removed that set of custom statistics from the Download Warehouse. So both heads up and multiway pots are accounted for correctly what exactly do you want to count? When the player is IP relative to the CBettor or when the player is IP on all players (last to act)?

[dave2085]

Thanks and you are correct so I've removed that set of custom statistics from the Download Warehouse. So both heads up and multiway pots are accounted for correctly what exactly do you want to count? When the player is IP relative to the CBettor or when the player is IP on all players (last to act)?

Tahnks for taking the time :)

I need a "Fold to Flop C-Bet IP" Stat, which counts headsup and multiway pots.

This stat should only count when the player is IP on all players. It shouldn't count in multiwaypots when the "player who folds vs. cbet" is relative IP, but isn't IP on all players.

for example this stat should count a situation like this: CO openraise, BU calls. CO bets F and BU folds and any other Headsup Situation...
This stat should NOT count a Situation like this: BU limps, SB raises and BB calls. SB cbets F and "BB folds to cbet IP" and BU can still act,...
but it should count a Situation where BU limps, SB raises and BB calls. SB cbets F, BB folds (dont count, because not ip on all players) and "BU folds to cbet IP".

[Flag_Hippo]

cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_has_position means that the player is last to act on the flop so just add that to the other column as well. You could also remove not(cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_check) as well since that technically isn't needed anymore because if a player folds to a CBet and they were last to act then it's impossible for them to have checked.

[dave2085]

I have a follow-up question on this topic (e.g. 3way on the flop - Stat: Donk Flop).
Is it somehow possible to differentiate between the "OOP players"?
last to act is IP obviously.

example Scenario, 3way Flop (Preflop: MP RFI, SB calls, BB overcalls):
First to act player donkbets (SB).
In this case the player (SB) did donkbet and he was first to act...

And the opportunity for BB donkbetting was not given, cause SB did donkbet.
But If SB would have checked, BB would have the Opportunity to donkbet.

Summary:
I am searching for an expression which seperates the OOP players and I want to create different Stats for such a Scenario.

This is the overall donkbet stat for 3way Scenario on the flop (2betpot):

Code: Select all

sum(if[char_length(cash_hand_summary.str_aggressors_p) = 2
and cash_hand_summary.cnt_players_f = 3
and cash_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_donk, 1, 0])

Is it somehow possible to check if OOP player which donkbet on the flop was 1st to act (in this case SB)?
And further on check if the "player in the middle" (in this case BB) did donkbet? Some query like he is facing a check (from SB) on the flop?!

Thanks for support!

[Flag_Hippo]

There isn't a direct query for a player facing a check from a specific position. Comparisons of player positions can be made using the actors and aggressors strings however they only record positions of players who put money in the pot so for the flop if the SB check-folds that position wouldn't appear in the flop strings but you can compare/test the preflop strings. This post has information on how the actors and aggressors strings work while this thread and this thread discuss how you can compare/test the strings. Bear in mind that would be more straightforward if you only include RFI-call-call situations but if you want to include all types single raised pots where there can be limp-callers and limp-folders then that would get more complex.