Seals With Clubs support [Off topic side conversation]

[didelisgenys2]

Wrong, you were last to the party with PokerStars OS X support, and you screwed your early adopters who play Omaha by not allowing them to port the license when you finally got around to releasing Omaha. This was after you mislead people about Omaha support in PT3 for OS X. Come on...

The attitude I see in this thread from the admins made me puke. As I said before, I will never buy another Poker Tracker product, I only came to post because I was researching SWC support. I am glad you don't support it. The site doesn't need HUDs. Also, HEM supports it already, although you have to know what you are doing with the hh converter to make it work.

Sorry, your arrogance hopefully leads to your closure, and missing out on the great deal of money a lot of us have already made with bitcoin. Bye again.

I know that PT loves to shoot itself in the foot, but maybe you should consider being first mover here. HEM2 seems to be open to the idea and I wouldn't be surprised if they roll out an update in the next 6 months. Just my opinion.

My money is here for you if you want it. You know what to do.

Actually, we typically are the first mover when it comes to supporting new sites, not sure why you think otherwise but the list of sites and features we supported first before our competitors is very long.

If there was a reputable major site that we already support which used bitcoin as the currency, we would certainly consider adding bitcoin tracking support as an option for that site - but to date there have been no credible existing networks that we already support that have taken this move. From what we have heard, HM2's position is similar to ours on this topic, neither company appears as if they intend to support SWC at this time and as kraada previously pointed out bitcoin is not the reason why - there are other reasons.

[StevenM]

Wrong, you were last to the party with PokerStars OS X support, and you screwed your early adopters who play Omaha by not allowing them to port the license when you finally got around to releasing Omaha. This was after you mislead people about Omaha support in PT3 for OS X. Come on...

Sorry, but you must be confusing us with a different application, your description matches complaints we would read from users about a different product designed for OSX, not PokerTracker. We were first to release PokerStars for OSX, and Omaha was fully available (and still is) in PokerTracker 3.

Sorry, your arrogance hopefully leads to your closure, and missing out on the great deal of money a lot of us have already made with bitcoin.

In order to be considered for support by PokerTracker licensed poker sites are licensed and regulated, they must request and authorize our support - something that Seals With Clubs owners have never done. (I just saw one of the owners last month in Las Vegas - not a word was mentioned about this topic). I attempted to find SWC's license to determine if they could met just the first requirement, there are no regulatory boars mentioned on the SWC home page or even the FAQ even though this is a standard requirement when a gaming network holds a license to operate to verify the regulatory body for player protections. Although this list could be fairly debated, the license regulators that are generally considered when a trusted list is provided include the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority, Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta, Alderney, Isle of Man, and Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Additionally there is a long list of regional regulators such as the States of Nevada and New Jersey, France, Italy, Spain, England (coming in 2014), and many others - SWC does not appear to hold a license with any of these gaming regulatory bodies, without a license players have no recourse or protection (again, I accept that "protection" is certainly debatable as well, but a license with an accepted gaming regulator is still a minimum requirement nonetheless).

Additionally I should reiterate once again that there are no credible poker networks that are licensed by one of the big gaming license regulators that supports Bitcoin, we would certainly consider adding bitcoin currency support for any existing supported network that decided to add this feature. We support the majority of major poker networks, but we do not support every poker network... there are larger networks than SWC that would gain priority if this was under consideration. Bitcoin is NOT the issue here, its SWC itself that has to pass muster, but they have not passed the most basic "smell test" to be considered for support.

Also, HEM supports it already, although you have to know what you are doing

HEM does not support SWC, this is untrue. A quote from their website dated 10/24 - "It will not be supported at this point in time.".

Lot of one shot posters... anyone done an IP check?

I am friends with a rather famous bitcoin "talking head", he told me that boitcoin supporters are telling non-poker players to come here to request support in the guise of helping bitcoin. Thats a pointless effort though, bitcoin itself is not the factor here, we have no issues with the concept of a cryptocurrency. It is the poker site which just happens to use bitcoin that is the problem in this situation, if they accepted USD instead of bitcoin all of the same issues would remain.

[didelisgenys2]

Sorry, but you must be confusing us with a different application, your description matches complaints we would read from users about a different product designed for OSX, not PokerTracker. We were first to release PokerStars for OSX, and Omaha was fully available (and still is) in PokerTracker 3.

False. There were at least three other inferior tracking programs that did before. That's the whole reason you bothered to release a port in the first place. AFAIK HEM still doesn't support OSX.

You screwed me 100%, and I promised never to use your software again. This holds true. I don't play hold'em but bought PT3 for mac with the understanding I could change it to Omaha when it was finally released. It's horrible customer support.

"
Message left on Oct 30, 2012 8:44AM
Hello xxxx,

Unfortunately, we are unable to switch registration codes from Holdem to Omaha or vice versa.

With that said, when you purchase PT3 Omaha today, you would receive a free upgrade to PT4 Omaha once PT4 for Mac is released. You are also eligible to receive a 70% discount to upgrade PT3 Holdem to PT4 Holdem.

PokerTracker 3 - Purchase

Best regards,

Derek"

Also, HEM supports it already, although you have to know what you are doing

It supports options to rename the sites for the converted histories, and doesn't bug out. PokerTracker is said to not work right for this purpose. There are a couple scripts to convert the hands. Why you can't be bothered to do it is just hilarious arrogance.

Lot of one shot posters... anyone done an IP check?

I am friends with a rather famous bitcoin "talking head", he told me that boitcoin supporters are telling non-poker players to come here to request support in the guise of helping bitcoin. Thats a pointless effort though, bitcoin itself is not the factor here, we have no issues with the concept of a cryptocurrency. It is the poker site which just happens to use bitcoin that is the problem in this situation, if they accepted USD instead of bitcoin all of the same issues would remain.

It's good that there is not tracking software. It isn't good for the game. You don't get it though. Licensing has nothing to do with it. You don't need a license to run a poker site legally in most places anyway. You support iPoker, Merge, Cake, and numerous other corrupt sites which have outright and unashamedly stolen from players. You didn't stop support of UB or Absolute either once the scandals dropped. You make no sense at all here.

I'm sorry Steven, but everyone involved in your company just seems to rub me the wrong way. I was one of your first customers, and even helped beta test poker ace hud before you bought it. You clearly have no space for humility, and now you have one less customer for it. I know there are others. I'm surprised you are actually still in business as the affiliate money really dried up. Anyway, peace.

[StevenM]

Sorry, but you must be confusing us with a different application, your description matches complaints we would read from users about a different product designed for OSX, not PokerTracker. We were first to release PokerStars for OSX, and Omaha was fully available (and still is) in PokerTracker 3.

False. There were at least three other inferior tracking programs that did before. That's the whole reason you bothered to release a port in the first place. AFAIK HEM still doesn't support OSX.

We know our own history very well, it was not why we released PokerTracker 3 for OSX, it was our agenda to release for dual operating systems since the very beginning of our development cycle for PT3 long before anyone ever saw the Windows version. Additionally I should point out that PT3 was written natively in C++, it is not a port, our development is operating system agnostic. Not sure why you brought up HEM's lack of OSX support, that was not a part of the topic. But back to the topic - there was no othr developer to release Omaha support on OSX for PokerStars before PokerTracker 3, we were the first.

You screwed me 100%, and I promised never to use your software again. This holds true. I don't play hold'em but bought PT3 for mac with the understanding I could change it to Omaha when it was finally released. It's horrible customer support.

We keep records of every transaction and communication made between our users and us, both on the forum and in our support tickets, so we took the time to research your claim. You purchased PokerTracker 3 for Holdem on July 113th, 2008. The Mac OS X version of PokerTracker 3 and the Omaha version were both released as a beta (not yet a commercial release available for sale) at the end of 2009 and commercially released in 2010 - this was more than a year after you purchased PokerTracker 3 back when it was a Holdem and Windows only. You then contacted us for the first time via a support ticket asking to switch from the Holdem version to the OS X version in 2012 - thats four years after your bought PokerTracker 3 Holdem.

Message left on Oct 30, 2012 8:44AM
Hello xxxx,

Unfortunately, we are unable to switch registration codes from Holdem to Omaha or vice versa.

With that said, when you purchase PT3 Omaha today, you would receive a free upgrade to PT4 Omaha once PT4 for Mac is released. You are also eligible to receive a 70% discount to upgrade PT3 Holdem to PT4 Holdem.

PokerTracker 3 - Purchase

Best regards,

Derek"

That email is accurate. If you purchased a full version of PokerTracker 3 Omaha as advised in the email, you would have earned a free upgrade to PokerTracker 4 Omaha. Your anger is misplaced - the evidence is clear that our team did everything to match our policies in your instance, and we answered your question politely while giving you a good plan of action to proceed that would allow you to get the new version of PokerTracker once released.

Also, HEM supports it already, although you have to know what you are doing

It supports options to rename the sites for the converted histories, and doesn't bug out. PokerTracker is said to not work right for this purpose. There are a couple scripts to convert the hands.

There are also scripts from third parties to convert some hand history formats for PokerTracker as well - but that does not mean we support these scripts or the sites they are created for - and I can confirm that this also appears to be HEM's same policy.

I'm sorry Steven, but everyone involved in your company just seems to rub me the wrong way. I was one of your first customers, and even helped beta test poker ace hud before you bought it. You clearly have no space for humility, and now you have one less customer for it.

I am sorry to hear we "rub you the wrong way", but I am afraid I cannot think of anything we have said that would warent anger in our direction since the evidence above shows that our team followed our very fair policies (we started offering free upgrades to new PT3 users to PokerTracker 4 in June of 2011 - a full year before we released PT4 - thats VERY generous, and frankly very rare in the software development business!). Since our forum is primarily for our users and people who are interested in possibly becoming users of PokerTracker to ask questions and get help for their support issues, I would therefore appreciate it if you don not continue to hijack this thread about SWC with your own private agenda over a situation that does not affect our other users - it is unfair to those who want to read this thread to discuss SWC or the associated Bitcoin topic. If you want to create a new thread or send us a support ticket to continue on your subtopic, you are free to do so of course, but this is not the right place to continue. I will be happy to respond if you create a new thread that focuses on your topics, you deserve to be heard just as our other user's do - but this is not the right place.

[didelisgenys2]

I purchased it within the first few months of its release actually, and I think I even bought it twice by accident. I have a few accounts if you look. The gap of me not caring can obviously be explained by me using HEM.

If you think your policies are fair then lol. Instead of trying to win back a customer from HEM you thought you would try to get more money from me. That makes no sense at all. You lost a lot of business to HEM as it quickly became a superior product, and did nothing to stop it. I don't get that part at all, I don't expect to get things for free, I expect to be not crapped on by a company I have supported.

Also, I don't think you get what a port is. It doesn't matter what language to develop in, there are various frameworks that present their own QA challenges. OSX is a pain, and they break things with every version. PT3 for OSX didn't run as well as the windows version. This is indisputable. Perhaps you've since fixed bugs.

The arrogance you express is too much! You know it all, you're completely right. I am wrong. You have to be right. In this case I am all for it though. The huds have decimated 2-4 plo+. There are only a few bright spots left.

Feel free to delete my posts. I will never be back.