vsHero stats

[Xenitron]

Will be there vsHero statistic like 3-bet CC% fold to 3b resteal of opponent versus you? You know this feature added in another product that you compete :?:

[kraada]

We do not plan on adding these statistics. We believe that table dynamics and sample size issues provide two very large impediments to these types of stats being useful.

One thing you can do though is set up NoteTracker to take notes for what players show down against you. Use the "Player is Hero" option in the "Opponent" filter of NoteTracker (it's in Hand Details) and then you can get actual hand ranges that a player showed down against you in a variety of circumstances.

[js2002]

I need a official statement on: "why doesnt PT4 have vs hero stats like HEM2?"

Its for the pokerstrategy.com community.

[Josh]

This is a quote from an article we did:

While PokerTracker has listened to its users and added a boatload of new features, the one hotly-requested feature not included in PT4 is versus-hero stats. PokerTracker actually created those stats and subsequently junked them. That’s right; they’re deliberately not included in PT4. Why? After consulting many experts, the people at PokerTracker believe these stats will do more harm than good, largely due to sample-size and data-skewing issues. Since your relative position against a particular player is more or less fixed at a given table, versus-hero stats can be heavily skewed by circumstance. Due to seat selection preferences, you can’t even assume that this relative position will even out in the long run. Throw in the fact that a given player will only 3-bet you in a small fraction of hands played together, and you have the recipe for a very misleading statistic.

Instead of delivering versus-hero stats, they’ve pointed the user towards 3Bet-versus-position stats, which should provide a more accurate profile of the user’s opponents. Whether or not you agree with their sample-size and data-skewing concerns, it’s a rare thing for a company not to deliver something its customers want simply because it may cause harm. If the tobacco industry operated this way, well, there would be no tobacco industry.

Up Close and Personal: Behind the Scenes of PokerTracker 4

Also, while there are no stats for this, similar functionality can be accomplished using the new NoteTracker system. You can create rules that only trigger when the opponent is vs hero.

[AequitasAUT]

I also would prefer a "vs. Hero" Stat like in HEM2... i think they are very useful because over large sample sizes Villian may adjust his play based on our stats and so his Stats vs. hero may be a lot different than normal...

[js2002]

I think the new DB Scheme makes "vs hero" posssible, but I guess the PT4 Team took the decision against it.
Why? Some explainations are above.
I also rethinked it and I agree that stats vs a special Lord Villian change very often. What does it help if he cbets 50% vs you but 75% vs Mr x fish.
I think the reads taken by pt4 and writing ur own thoughts > "vs hero".

[kraada]

Thanks js, it's good to hear that you agree. We will be giving a more detailed official statement for you for the PokerStrategy crowd at some point later today, but I'm glad to hear that you're on the same page that we are.

I personally think the 3bet statistics are the ones that are most misleading. If a villain is on the button vs you in the cutoff on several tables his 3bet vs you preflop might be very high - but he might always do that when on the button vs a cutoff open. Later if you see him 3bet you when you're in EP and he's in the SB you don't want to be drawing conclusions from that earlier data . . .

[js2002]

1 point: vs hero stats maybe make sense when u use position (relative) also.

f.e.
vs hero stats popup:
3bet BU vs CO Hero in posi
or
3bet BU vs Hero in posi

that was a geneall not implemented wish of mine: property filters: IP/OOP

[random]

Thanks js, it's good to hear that you agree. We will be giving a more detailed official statement for you for the PokerStrategy crowd at some point later today, but I'm glad to hear that you're on the same page that we are.

I personally think the 3bet statistics are the ones that are most misleading. If a villain is on the button vs you in the cutoff on several tables his 3bet vs you preflop might be very high - but he might always do that when on the button vs a cutoff open. Later if you see him 3bet you when you're in EP and he's in the SB you don't want to be drawing conclusions from that earlier data . . .

I dont necessarily want vs Hero stats, but what you are saying could be avoided if there is full set of vs hero stats (by position & vs position), no?

[kraada]

And then you run into sample size issues. If you're seated randomly around a 6 handed table there's a 20% chance of having any given combination of seats. Let's take this assumption and do some math:

Say you have 1,000 hands on an opponent. You have only 200 where you are in the same relative position as your opponent. If we want times he 3bet you in position BTN vs CO we have to look at your CO open. If each player in front of you has a 20% chance of opening, then you'll only have open opportunities in 1280 hands. If you open 30% of those you'll have opened 38 times on average.

Say we see his 3bet vs CO open from BTN as something like 8%. And his 3bet vs your open when you are in CO from the BTN as 11%. You've got 1000 hands on him that should mean something right? The difference between 8% and 11% here is exactly one 3bet: 3/38 vs 4/38.