About 3bet vs steal%

[pantik]

I have just dolwnload this stat: 3bet_vs_steal__.pt3stat. It is calculted:

((cnt_bu_3bet_steal / cnt_bu_3bet_steal_opp) * 100 + (cnt_bb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_bb) * 100 + (cnt_sb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_sb) * 100) / 3

This makes sense but the nex expresion dont makes sense for me:

cnt_bu_3bet_steal = sum(if[ holdem_hand_player_statistics.position = 0 AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_p_3bet_action='R' , 1 , 0 ])

the description says "How often a player 3bet a steal on the button". :?:

Could you explain to me the values of this expression. I dont undertand it. I undestand that:
holdem_hand_player_statistics.position = 0 >>> player is in button
holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att >>>player do a attenp to steal
holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp >>> player face a 3bet
holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_p_3bet_action='R' >>> player raise the 3bet (4bet)

where am i wrong ? if i am not , where could get "3bet vs steal", i.e. % a player 3bet a steal , from BU, SB, BB ?

[kraada]

You are correct; I would not recommend using that stat as-is for the purposes which it purports to work.

I'll see about getting it removed.

[pantik]

Where could i get "3bet vs steal" (BU, SB, and BB) ? Or, how could i create it ?

[kraada]

You can build it for just the blind positions using this value expression:
((cnt_sb_steal_raise + cnt_bb_steal_raise) / (cnt_steal_def_opp_bb + cnt_steal_def_opp_sb)) * 100

At this point in time it is not possible to tell when you are facing a steal on the button, though.

[pantik]

At this point in time it is not possible to tell when you are facing a steal on the button, though.

:o :roll: :shock: :?
Is it really impossible ?

[kraada]

Yes. You don't have a steal defense opportunity when you're not stealing. The val_p_raise_aggressor_pos will show the CO as the raiser only so long as a blind does not 4bet. If you don't mind losing those situations as opportunities you can build something close, but it won't be perfect.

[pantik]

Yes. You don't have a steal defense opportunity when you're not stealing. The val_p_raise_aggressor_pos will show the CO as the raiser only so long as a blind does not 4bet. If you don't mind losing those situations as opportunities you can build something close, but it won't be perfect.

i dont understand this very well. Could you use another words ?

I think that if we know the % times BU 3bets to a raise first from CO , only we would need add that to the expression: ((cnt_sb_steal_raise + cnt_bb_steal_raise) / (cnt_steal_def_opp_bb + cnt_steal_def_opp_sb)) * 100

[kraada]

It's a problem of what we can pick out.

There's a value in the database: holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos which is the position of the last person (who wasn't you) to make an aggressive act preflop. There is no other way to pick out who was the raiser preflop when you're on the button. When you're in the blinds, you can check the database field for "are you defending against a steal", but that's not useful when you're on the button as you're not defending your blinds. So val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is the only database field we can use. But it only stores one number.

Let me give some examples:

(1) CO opens, BUT 3-bets, all fold.

From button's perspective, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 1 (the CO's position) and from CO's perspective val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 0 (the button's perspective).

(2) CO opens, BUT 3-bets, BB 4-bets, all fold.

For CO and BUT, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 8 (BB's position). For BB, it's 0 (BTN's position).

Note that in this case there's then no way for the button to know that the CO was the person who initially opened the action.

That's the problem. We can't pick out case (2) as a time when button 3-bet vs a steal. (2) is identical as far as val_p_raise_aggressor_pos goes from a case where UTG opens, BTN 3-bets and the BB 4-bets.

[pantik]

OK

[pr1mo]

what about that rule that you can put what our exact actions were on a particular street? couldn't we set a rule where we only 'R' preflop then this would take out all the 4bet behind us opportunities because we are saying that we have only acted once preflop and we raised on button facing a steal and with a 3bet def opp.